The Forum of Benfleet Running Club

gmike · #2 Joined: 26 Mar 2008 Posts: 259 Location: Benfleet

Picked up a pair of Asics Hyper LD track/cc spikes today and I'm wondering why they've got 7 holes but only come with 6 spikes per shoe ... well 6 spikes and a blank.
As they came with 6mm's I got a pack of 12mm while I was there and they are 12 to a pack aswell ... ie 6 per shoe.

Are there different ways to spike depending on gait?

Is 12 per pack just a standard quantity?

Why supply 12 and 2 blanks? Surely an other spike would be of more use.

Any ideas anyone?

Karl C · Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject:

sorry, can you repeat the question ?

Mike Mason · #7 Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 1055 Location: Hockley

I believe gmike has introduced the concept of the hermeneutic circle to the Forum, a cheap attempt to stop people ordering BRC Wooly hats:

gmike · #2 Joined: 26 Mar 2008 Posts: 259 Location: Benfleet

to recap ...

1 shoe (running spike variety)

7 holes ( located in sole area for the insertion of supplied spike therein)

6 spikes ( as supplied for insertion into aforementioned holes in the sole)

as above x2, 1 left & 1 right.

in summary ...

2 shoes, 14 holes, 12 spikes

What's that I here you say ... "There's more holes than spikes mike"

Exactamundo!

Mike Mason · #7 Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 1055 Location: Hockley

Well I stand corrected gmike and I hope Karl feels some angst. It wasn't a hermeneutic circle at all it was a tautology. I now understand your frustration and perhaps you can now realise mine in seeing people wearing BRC wooly hats when I don't have one.

[url]In rhetoric, a tautology is an unnecessary (and usually unintentional) repetition of meaning, using different words that effectively say the same thing twice (often originally from different languages). It is often regarded as a fault of style and was defined by Fowler as "saying the same thing twice". It is not necessary for the entire meaning of a phrase to be repeated; if a part of the meaning is repeated in such a way that it appears as unintentional or clumsy, then it may be described as tautology. On the other hand, a repetition of meaning which improves the style of a piece of speech or writing is not usually described as tautology, although it may be a logical tautology.

A rhetorical tautology can also be defined as a series of statements that comprise an argument, whereby the statements are constructed in such a way that the truth of the proposition is guaranteed. Consequently the statement conveys no useful information regardless of its length or complexity. The statement "If you can't find something (that you lost), you are not looking in the right place" is tautological. It is true, but conveys no useful information. As a physical example, to play a game of darts where the dart board was full of bullseyes, could be called a "tautological" game. The player wouldn't lose. Any argument containing a tautological statement is thus flawed logically and must be considered erroneous.

A tautological argument is not an argument; a tautological game is not a game. Mathematical equations, such as E = mc2, are not tautologies. The terms on both sides of the equation are defined elsewhere independently. The equal sign does not mean "is defined by" but rather equal to, thus establishing an equivalence. Acceleration and mass independently don't equal force but their product MA as derived by Newton does, hence the equation F=MA isn't a tautology.[/url]
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'sometimes I am running so fast it appears that rocks and trees are standing still......' 'I may be slow, but you are ugly and I can train harder.' '90% is mental, the other half is physical'it's going to get a lot worse, before it gets worse'.

Coach · #1 Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 65 Location: Daws Heath

gmike, bring them to club and I'll explain. Think it'll be easier and quicker than posting !!

gmike · #2 Joined: 26 Mar 2008 Posts: 259 Location: Benfleet

Thanks Coach ... sounds technical ... I'm intrigued!

Mike Mason · #7 Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 1055 Location: Hockley

Coach are you implying that Karl and I haven't helped gmike?
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'sometimes I am running so fast it appears that rocks and trees are standing still......' 'I may be slow, but you are ugly and I can train harder.' '90% is mental, the other half is physical'it's going to get a lot worse, before it gets worse'.

Lee O · #3 Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Posts: 385 Location: Canvey Island

mike perhaps the extra holes are for ventalation!

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My mind says I am still 19 and in My Prime......Body Suggests Otherwise!!!!!!

JBD · #3 Joined: 15 Sep 2007 Posts: 317

Lucycat · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject:

GMike

I think you can stick blanks in two holes - vague thought it has something to do with track rules too but Im sure Ian will know and explain.

But... back in the days when I wore spikes and got injured less I would swap and change according to conditions ie mega mud = 12mm spikes less mud or more hard surface (as you may find at 1 tree hill) = less spike. I also found that I tended to catch the ones at the top and edge of your feet and needed a shorter spike there and needed big spikes under the ball of my foot for grip. All comes down to preference, Ive moved back to fell shoes.

Key bit of advice is when you clean them try to take the spikes out otherwise they rust in.
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Lucy and Paddy

Mike Mason · #7 Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 1055 Location: Hockley

Lucy, your description of issues fits exactly with why Ernie gave up wearing high heels.....
_________________
'sometimes I am running so fast it appears that rocks and trees are standing still......' 'I may be slow, but you are ugly and I can train harder.' '90% is mental, the other half is physical'it's going to get a lot worse, before it gets worse'.

Karl C · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject:

gmike · #2 Joined: 26 Mar 2008 Posts: 259 Location: Benfleet

At least with high heels there's no confusion ... one spike at the back ... easy peasy!

Lucycat ... the bloke in the shop never mentioned anything about cleaning either

I do vaguely remember something about track rules and spikes now you mention it

C'mon Coach ... you can't keep me in suspense til Thursday

Karl C · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject:

Mike Mason · #7 Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 1055 Location: Hockley

Exactly Karl, gmike says he has 6 spikes and his gimp choker clearly shows 6 spikes. I am not sure what more Coach can add to a rather sad story......
_________________
'sometimes I am running so fast it appears that rocks and trees are standing still......' 'I may be slow, but you are ugly and I can train harder.' '90% is mental, the other half is physical'it's going to get a lot worse, before it gets worse'.

david thomson · #2 Joined: 20 Oct 2006 Posts: 264 Location: thundersley

yes lucy is right , i think . only 6 spikes per shoe for the track , max 6mm.
but for xc it dosent matter
as for cleaning them dont bother ! as long as you put some grease on the threads before tightening they will come on and off with ease.