The Forum of Benfleet Running Club

Stevie · Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 413 Location: Benfleet

As I've bored soo many of you about my blasted shin I thought it deserves its own thread.

Well this injury I've had in the past, still got it at present and I'm guessing I'm still going to have it in the future.

No matter what I do, it just doesnt want to go Sad

Pammie · Joined: 30 Jun 2006 Posts: 299

INJURY LEAVE STEVES LEGS NOW

excuse me for shouting. don't know what came over me.
Dare i say it. I know my rw forum friends have said it to me "Have you seen a physio?"

Do you know what causes yours not that its much help and excuse me for rambling and hope you understand my weird sense of humour i don't mean to be flippant or unkind or rude
Oh ok i'll shut up now drunken

_________________
I'll put something interesting here when i've thought of something, in the meantime heres some music.

Steffan · Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 543 Location: Basildon

Too many hills too often or its the shoes I reckon mate!

Stevie · Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 413 Location: Benfleet

Cheers Pammie, they are feeling better already Smile

I've spent loads on physio, think it made abit of a difference but only to my calf muscle. I was told it was just lack of stretching, running faster was the main cause. I've rested them well over the last couple of months, icing it everyday etc.

I think another trip back to the physio is inorder, as I want to start racing in a few weeks and there is no way I'm going to stop compress

Mike Mason · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 953 Location: Hockley

Steve, good luck! Did they identify if it was Compartment syndrome? This I developed in 2005 - straight overuse....but cost me £300 in physio to sort. And even now I am partial to a 'full' calf.

Check out this blog as John is experiencing exactly what I experienced in my build up to the 2005 WHW...unfortunately he is only 3 weeks away I was some months.....

http://west-highland-way-race07-training.blogspot.com/

Benfleet Physio were great and I can still laugh about standing in a rubbish bin of ice and water......but only now.......

rgds

Mike
_________________
'sometimes I am running so fast it appears that rocks and trees are standing still......' 'I may be slow, but you are ugly and I can train harder.' '90% is mental, the other half is physical'it's going to get a lot worse, before it gets worse'.

Karl C · Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 1690 Location: Rayleigh

mArKw · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 255 Location: Benfleet

Steve

Are you locally icing the shin with an ice pack, or are you fully immersing your lower leg into an ice bath. If you are icing the shin, you may be easing the inflamation on the shin but not actually curing the problem itself if the calf muscles are tight.

Get yourself a kitchen bin and ice your legs in that. I go through a routine of making some food, a drink, radio and something to read so I can sit with my legs in the ice bath without worrying about the time. 15 minutes or so takes bloody ages if you don't preoccupy your mind with something else. Also it helps relax you and forget about the p**n......Oh, and a watch and a clock helps, as you don't want to be in it for too long as it could cause more damage.

Morning and evening if it's really bad or just after excercise as it starts to ease.

This IS a caring club and ice baths are compulsory toothy10

Mark
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The hills are alive........

mArKw · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 255 Location: Benfleet

Jez · Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Eastwood

May be worth going to Original sports in leigh and having your running gait videoed. If you are running faster and up on your toes, hence the tight calves you may do well to invest in a cushioned forefoot strike pair of trainers.They give good advice and dont just send you off with the most expensive pair.Also come back slowly rather than just load up on the mileage.....Good luck

Stevie · Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 413 Location: Benfleet

Cheers for the advice guys cheers

Mark - yeah just icing it with an ice pack will take your advice on board and try sqeezing myself into a kitchen bin, it cant make it any worse now can it.

Mike - Cheers for the link, will read that at work tomorrow Smile

Jez - I will find out where Original sports is and get myself along there asap, thanks for that mate.

No doubt i'll let you know how I get on over the next few weeks, you will proberly hear me moaning about it Smile

Cheers

mikemoreton · Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 543 Location: Hockley, GORC.

Steve,
Original Sports is in Leigh. Almost opposite the Bowling Alley. I went there and was very impressed with the service. My trainers were 'only' £70.00. (maybe they are why i am slow?) Seriously though, they didnt try to sell me any more than I needed. If you need a bigger space to submerge your legs in, let me know.

Regards

Mike

Lucycat · Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject:

Steve oh dear! compress

First thing with shin splints although generally upper part of shin make sure your shoes are right for you - as the others say! This is usually a very quick fix and so if it doesnt work then look at the rest!

If it gets repetative ie you suffer this frequently and you can rule out the rules of sudden mileage increases and knackered trainers I would get your gait properly analysed by a good sports specialised podiatrist. I have had no end of shin and calf problems and it is entirely caused by legs with angles and gait that is way way from perfect - too many opposing forces and in between are shins and calves. If you are running around on a gait thats less than great and beyond the realms of the right shoe this is worth finding out. Itll cost you about £60 for an appointment but at least you will know what the problem is. The solution may be more expensive or it may not.....

Dont run on them if you they are really inflamed as this will put you at risk of the dreaded compartment syndrome. This is when the muscle is inflamed and needs more space than the sheath that surrounds it. It is very specific in its nature and tends to come on after say 20 minutes of running due to increased blood circulation and no space for it and goes away on rest or gets mega mega bad with similar time frames and you become a hospital job (acute sort but unlikely mind!).

They say dodgy calves and shins are linked and if you think about it if you heel strike and your calves are tight your shins work harder. They also have to work harder if you overpronate to control the motion as will your calves and tend to have to bulk up in between to protect the muscle from the force.

Ice is good for inflammation (10 minutes of calves and shins in a mop bucket filled with icey water usually does it - as does a nice cold pond!) after a run. Off road better than on. Also make sure you ar edoing calf raises and calf stretches and also reverse calf raises. To do these sit on a step or bench legs bent feet on floor and lift your toes and put them down again a lot quickly until they burn and will work no more and then do at least ten more (good for runners as calves tend to get stronger in relation to shins). You can also do this by having a flexiband wrapped around a chair and pulling your toe towards your knee whilst sitting with your legs striaght in front of you ie pulling against the band. This will both strengthen and protect your shins and also get the blood circulating. Daily but its easy to fit around life esp if you have a commute and an automatic car!

Also try cycling which tends to train opposing muscles to running so is a good balance - cycling is more shin and quad based running more calves and hamstrings and finally stretch both calves and shins lots.
_________________

Lucy and Paddy

Stevie · Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 413 Location: Benfleet

I know where you mean Mike - Cheers mate.

Lucy - I've got some new trainers, I went back to Asics - Kayano's as I did have some Saucony trainers that I was told to get rid of as I'm a mild pronator.

I've had plenty of rest since January as I missed most of the x country's and had a 2-3 week break without running, then in March I was just running off road and avoided the hard surface's altogether, this did make a difference.

I was able to do the effort session last night, first couple hurt abit but then the pain eased and I was able to run sub 6 min/mile pace for just over 1 min, I’m guessing if it was really bad I wouldn’t have been able to do that.

Still I'm going to get myself a bin today and start doing that, thanks for the info on the stretches. I am stretching now after every run I do and even if I'm not running I'm in the routine of stretching all the time now, but will do the ones you have mentioned aswell.

I’ll keep you posted on how things go, I just hope I can make the Race for Business in Chelmsford on the 27th of June and the Dark Lane 5km on the 1st of July as I’ll be gutted if I can't run.

Thanks again guys compress

david thomson · Joined: 20 Oct 2006 Posts: 192 Location: thundersley

deffinately take on board lucys points steve , very valid. ive been running in custom orthotics now since january and they gradually seem to be making a difference to my calves . one thing that gait analasys cant do is annalize properly what your foot is doing so its well worth going along to see a podiatrist whos got a computerised pad that you run across . id been along to 2 shops and spent alot of time trying different shoes and was told to wear mild stability shoes but the podiatrist said this was wrong as that gave too much support.
on the ice issue , personally i just use ice packs but totally imersing the calves is probably better (i just dont like wasying water ). but one thing ive been told is not to do this for more than 10 mins as it can then do more harm.
also been advised to take supplements of glucosamine and chrodontrin (sp?) onega 3,6 and 9 and calcium (i just have a glass of milk after each run)
stretching is very important but make sure your warmed up first ie at least 10 mins walking . the ones i do are
where you lean against a wall and push with your heels on the ground.

stand and keep your backside ocer your heel and lower your knee

very good one is to stand on one leg with the toes of your other foot on an a chair at about knee hight then press your heel down

stand oppostie an open door have your heel on the ground and the toe wedged on the edge of the door so your foot is at a 45 deg angle then pull the rest of your body over your foot using the door handles for support

also speaking from experience try to do things gradually personally im restricting my running to 3 days a week at the moment 2 of these are very slow level 1 runs the other is fast/ fartleks etc . i use a pulsemeter to stop me going too fast on the recovery runs as other wise id be off . then gradually increase your mileage from there. but everyones different your certainly lighter than me so may be able to do more days ??

i also try to keep away from the hills at the mo if possible as this puts more strain on the calfs and running offroad the same ( bit of a prob for me as i prefer both)

Stevie · Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 413 Location: Benfleet

Cheers for the advice David, will try those stretches after my run tonight and will take the other advice on board.
I prefer running off road though, as I find the impact on the ground is less to that runnning on concrete.
I've done a few efforts recently I wouldnt say my shins are getting any worse, I've found the ice bath works wonders, so with all this extra advice I should be back to full race fitness in no time cheers

Pat M · Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 215 Location: Canvey Island

Steve, and you asked me why i'm not running anymore. lol.
Good luck mate. I bet that move to Portsmouth can't come quick enough. lol.

P.S. How self indulgent to start a thread all about YOU! You simpering little sissy. lol. geek

P.P.S. Where's my friggin' Island!

Stevie · Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 413 Location: Benfleet

lol - I'm surprised its taken you this long to post a reply on here, your island is long gone mate brilsmurf

Now stop spamming my shin thread compress

Stevie · Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 413 Location: Benfleet

Maybe I should stop icing my shins

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6287210.stm

Mike Mason · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 953 Location: Hockley

Damn, the next thing will be someone droning on about running being bad for you........leading to tons of injuries and heart problems. Safer to sit at home, eat fish and chips and read Muldoons Island....

rgds
Mike
_________________
'sometimes I am running so fast it appears that rocks and trees are standing still......' 'I may be slow, but you are ugly and I can train harder.' '90% is mental, the other half is physical'it's going to get a lot worse, before it gets worse'.

Mike Mason · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 953 Location: Hockley

Pat, because this is a caring club - my arse I enclose some shin rehab techniques from William Sichel:

Injury Rehabilitation
This page was born out of the frustration of not being able to get sufficiently good running injury rehabilitation advice. I had a minor shin injury but lost in excess of two months training/competition because of a stop-start return to running.

Rehab advice was far too vague. A highly motivated athlete, who is used to following a daily training schedule, needs a similar 'rehabilitation schedule' that they can follow on a daily basis.

(Shin) Injury Rehabilitation -a suggested programme that worked for me. Consult your coach or health professional before copying this schedule.

For an injury rehab programme I VERY STRONGLY recommend that a treadmill be used. This is where the treadmill really comes into its own. The precise control of speed and inclination is perfect for a controlled return to walking and running. Furthermore, if things go wrong you can stop and get off immediately without incurring further damage. This is vital when gradually building up training to the point of pain and NO FURTHER.

1) Shin soreness, even minor episodes, can linger on and be very difficult to clear unless a very aggressive rehabilitation program is followed. Assuming soreness is present.

2) TREATMENT: Stop running immediately for 5-7 days and maintain fitness with cross training: walking/marching on treadmill or grass; aqua jogging; turbo - all provided there is no pain during the activity. Continue with circuits twice a week.
Take Iboprufen 1600mg/day for 7 days. Use Theraband twice a day provided no pain. Use theTENS unit. Ankle stretch. Cross-frictions on alternate days x 2; Ice 20mins every two hours for first 48hrs or until inflammation has gone – then use Infra-Red lamp 15mins twice a day.

3) REHABILITATION: Firstly the mental attitude has to be right. You must accept that a too hasty build up will result in another 7 –14 days off from running and a further delay in return to competition. Philosophise that it is better to be running less than you want but able to keep doing it every day (during the rehab program) rather than starting with too much resulting in a rapid injury breakdown and more time off.

When no pain is felt doing shin/ankle exercises and during palpation of the injured area, return to running with interval sessions on treadmill or soft ground – 5 mins run/5 mins walk. Need to try and find the maximum before soreness returns. This will probably be 20-40 mins. The use of intervals is to gradually re-introduce the injured area to the bouncing/ballistic action that caused it in the first place.

4) Then increase by 5 mins every other day whilst training every day. This is a ‘stepping’ increase as opposed to a gradual increase. There is one day’s consolidation after each increase. Using this 5%-10% increase rule, significant increases in training time can be made over just 2 weeks e.g. 20mins -> 55mins & 45mins – 95mins. Restrict speed at this stage to not more than 6kph (walking) and 11kph (running).

5) After 60mins has been reached, introduce XL (XL Extra Load = Weight Vest) on every third day continuing with 5/5 intervals.

6) After 70mins has been reached change to continuous running starting with 35mins and building up as before. A 5/5 interval routine can be continued using 5mins faster running/5mins slower running. Continue with XL sessions every third day.

7) Finally, when 60mins of continuous running has been reached (10 days after commencement of continuous running) slip back into normal training schedule with reduced intensity and duration. On the fast, long XL runs in particular, creep up the duration using the 5-10% rule each Sunday.

Cool

With a starting run/walk training time of about 40mins, one would be right back into full training, with very little loss of muscle strength or cardiovascular fitness, after about 3- 4wks of following this rehab programme.

9) Finally check training schedule and/or post-race recovery programme. The main consideration is to prevent a repeat of the injury.

10) Don’t confirm immediate plans for the next competition. Keep an open mind – enter races and book flights (but don’t pay for them). When you have successfully done a fast 2hr XL run, then decide your next race.

rgds

Mike
_________________
'sometimes I am running so fast it appears that rocks and trees are standing still......' 'I may be slow, but you are ugly and I can train harder.' '90% is mental, the other half is physical'it's going to get a lot worse, before it gets worse'.

Pat M · Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 215 Location: Canvey Island

Thanks, Mike. Is the above meant to make me better or put me off running? My shins were aching just reading it. Who ices for 20 minutes? And I've never seen an infa-red lamp. And I've never heard of a cross friction thingy majingies. Don't you have a magic wand? (Smutty replies to Steve Dear!) Thank you so much for the concern, but i'd rather keep my shin splints. lol.

Mike Mason · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 953 Location: Hockley

Pat, get along to Benfleet Physio -see Nigel or Gemma. Cross frictions are where they rub the muscle against the grain to get out the knots/scar tissue. Incredibly painful but extremely effective. Tim Noakes in 'Lore of running' refers to them as 'crucifixions'.........

From my personal experience you need a PT to assess you. I agree that the icing recommended in the article seems a bit excessive.........but the concensus of opinion appears to favour that time. I preferred sitting with calves in ice bucket watching the TV...................save the money on the book you want and see a physio....

rgds

Mike
_________________
'sometimes I am running so fast it appears that rocks and trees are standing still......' 'I may be slow, but you are ugly and I can train harder.' '90% is mental, the other half is physical'it's going to get a lot worse, before it gets worse'.